Help me out here...

It would not be the first time on this board, or the board pre TF, that I have gone on about Utds squad players not being good enough (not being fit) to wear the shirt. I'm not going to (again) go into naming names.

Another disappointing performance has led to a home draw which means we will need to pick up 3 points away somewhere along the line.

Now, Im sure we will qualify, so that is not the issue. But to play so many squad players in the same game is surely asking for trouble.

What I put to everyone who bothers reading this, is, am I going too far with this or is there a serious problem with the managers selection.

Im all for giving the other players a game, but to make so many changes...affecting QUALITY and CONTINUITY is not good when searching for an opening group win.

Im lost for words over the result and the performance tonight. Im sure we will go through, so perhaps a disappointing draw is not even important. After a disappointing draw on the weekend, I would have thought a good European win was what the doctor ordered.

Obviously SAF saw it differently?

That may have been the weakest lineup United have ever put out in Europe. Just goes to show that the group stages of the Champions League is becoming like the Carling Cup. The competition doesn't really begin til the knock out round. Ferguson wouldn't have dared to put out a line up like that against any team in the Premier.

However, it should have been good enough to beat Rangers by at least a goal. Rangers played 10 men behind the ball and never really tried to score. United didn't have enough skillful players out there, that where able to break down Rangers defense. I would have liked to see Berbatov and Nani play the first half and if United was up at half time then bring in the reserves. But Ferguson has been saying all along the team is strong enough and it's a squad game, so he has to put his money where his mouth is sometimes.

Maybe his was trying to do Walter Smith a favour and make sure they finish third and get into the Europa Cup.

It would be amiss to not mention the Valencia injury. It was a harmless tackle, no foul and only a throw in given. The Ranger defender looked like he was going to be sick. Valencia's foot looked a lot like Edurado's, maybe his studs got caught? Certainly looks like he will be gone for most of the rest of the season, and one can only hope he makes a full recovery. However, the odds are long on making a full recovery from an injury as horrendous as that one. I hope that the surgery goes well and Valencia is back playing better than ever next season.

I was not suprized by the line up he picked. He has made this mistake before, against Burnley away last season, & there is a case to say SAF is making more mistakes with age.

In my opinion, he has been very lucky manager over the past 5 seasons with his success being mainly because of the owner interferance at Chelsea to remove Jose, and having a truly exceptional player against weaker players in Ronaldo.

It would be difficult to make a case that the group stage of the CL is now being looked upon as equal to the carling cup, & if SAF is thinking that, its time to be moving him on.

This result and the terrible injury to Valencia will mean a heavier work load for Giggs n Scholes in the competition & that 3rd place which was suggested Rangers being given a helping hand too, could now have a different name, if things dont pan out better than this result.

I am sure that wont be the case, but being 2nd in the group, behind no mugs Valencia, is a stronger possibility.

Yes, Valencia will be out for most of the season it seems, but it is a position where United have depth, so I doubt he will be missed too much. Giggs will just have to play even more.

Lastly, after saying all that, my own team have named a half strength side too for tonights game

Half strength for Chelsea does not equate to half strength at Utd. It is worlds better. Easy win for Chelsea tonight against dire oposition. 4-0

It is stretching to compare the Champions League Group stages with the Carling Cup, but I do think because of the quality of some of the teams that the respect for and the interest doesn't pick up until the knockout stages.

As for Ferguson making more mistakes as he ages, it does seem that way, but I wonder if part of the reason is because the side is not as strong or deep as it has been in the past. At one time United could rest half a squad and bring in quality replacements, they can't so that any more. I know Ferguson keeps saying the squad is strong and he can interchange the players, but I don't believe that. If Ferguson actually believes that, and with Ferguson you can never tell if he's telling the truth or attempting mind games, than he truly is making a mistake.