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 Euro 2016

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Milt

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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:21 pm

England pretty good in the first half, but Russia have stepped it up a level in the second and its a real game now.
Bit of a worry this because England have four out of five defenders who have a howler in them and Rooney looks like he can be dispossessed everytime he has the ball.

Hodgson needs to get some fresh legs on the field.
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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:27 pm

Switched off at the far post in time added on. Typically England though unable to play the full 90. Traditionally play a good first half and then hang on in the second.

Thought the subs were made too late, you could see Russia were taking over early in the second half and Roy should have started to make subs around the hour
mark. Sterling was terrible and should have been off for Sturridge or Rashford, surely he does not start agaisnt Wales.. Even the Rooney for Wiltshire should have been made early.

This was supposed to be England's weakest opponent, doesn't bode well for the rest of the way.

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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:35 pm

Agree that the subs were too late. Sterling should be done for the tournament. I, as is well known, think Rooney should not start. He was pedestrian at best. When we had a lot of the ball he made a couple of decent passes, but when it got a little tougher he was nowhere to be found and even though Wilshere was only on for a short period, you could see the difference between an actual midflielder and the converted Rooney.

Alli fails to pick up his man for the goal, and frankly you always felt England could concede. When you have Rose, Walker, Cahill and Hart in defence, all of whom have a mistake in them, things are going to be fragile.
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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:45 pm

Rooney looked good in the first half, but the Russians were playing off the English midfield and gave them far to much room and time. In the second half the Russians presseds more and gave England little time and space. Once under constant pressure Rooney was ineffective and should have been off ten or so minutes earlier.

Don't think Roy has the balls to start Wiltshire over Rooney agaisnt Wales though.

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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:48 am

I thought Ronney played extremely well and pretty much our best player. From what I have seen this morning from the media, most agree with that and question why he was removed.

The player I will single out as a waste of space was lalana who missed 5 good chances to score and a couple of those were excellent.

I dont put this on his shoulders, he should never have been on the pitch and the way Roy set up the team you have to ask yourself why neither Woolcott or Townsend were taken.

Russia were there for the taking, yet we played one up front, Kane, who was pretty much pathetic and I have been told this morning did not touch the ball one while in the Russian box in the whole game.

Many are pointing the finger at Sterling this morning and I would lay out a fair home truths. Everyone knows what you are going to get with him. He is a player who will produce chances, 1-5 times he has the ball, pretty much a headless chicken and one who is very much lacking infront of goal, a bit like Lalana last night. What didnt help him was the pathetic Kane who did not move anywhere near enough to allow Sterling and others to thread the ball to him. Sterling for me played better than Lalana who wasted the chances he was given. Sterling and Rose linked up well going forward, better than the two guys playing the other side, although Walker did manufacture some good moments for himself.

Peter Crouch, guest on the ITV show I watched the game said Rooney is our best player and was on the night, however, while the team were helped having play deeper, pretty much controlling the game, England miss his talents up front.... as Crouch says, he is our record goalscorer and watching Kane fumble through lasts night game, you have to wonder if Rooney had been closer to him, we may have scored more than the one.

The chances that fell to Lalana which he did not take advantage of had me think about the many time Townsend has finished off those kind of chances for both Club and Country. I put last nights result firmly down to the manager, who playing against a Russian side, said to be their worst in 3 decades, he chose to only play one up front and set up a system in which he left behind better players for that set up.

I agree with others here the defence is a mistake waiting to happen, last night Rose was seen at his worst unable to position himself to put the other guys off, something small full backs have to learn to do as they get targeted.

Lastly, Dier.... while he scored our goal, (Had not taken a free kick direct at goal for over 60 games) I did not think he was a natural in the position of holding midfielder. Yes, he looked better dropping between center backs allowing the full backs to move up the pitch and I do feel if he had a left foot there is a good chance he would start alongside Gary. If we knew beforehand Roy was going to set up the team like that, surly Stones would have been the ideal player for that role? Common sense to me.

Sorry, I am not going to get sucked in on how well we played. Russia are well below average and we were set up wrong to exploit that.

10000% down to the manager.


FOOTNOTE:

Last night was a perfect example why I no longer watch International football.
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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:49 pm

England's midfield problem was that Rooney isn't a midfielder. Nothing to do with Dier. And blaming the defeat on the one attacking player who created chances is just silly.

Stones alongside Cahill? You're having a laugh. Cahill is fortunate to be on the field, and would certainly not be dropped before Smalling who is head and shoulders a better player.

Kane was ineffective. He rarely showed for the ball and didn't look threatening when he did get the ball. However he didn't get service. All the wing play resulted in pull backs for Alli or Lallana and twice for Rooney who also didn't score from his two chances, plus free kick he blazed over the bar.. Kane taking corners? Why? He doesn't take them for Spurs.

Where was Hart for the goal? He didn't come for the ball and yet he is ten feet of his line so the looping header goes over him?

Hodgson did what he always does. Played players out of position and then failed to spot the teams weaknesses even after the opponent exposes them.
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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:43 pm

Saw the headlines. Rooney man of the match,  Hodgson blamed for taking him off, etc.

This post on Redcafe summed up the opinion on the United boards;

"The truth is that Rooney can only ever be effective in that role if given acres of space to operate in. Unfortunately most PL opposition managers will quickly see that when put under even a slight amount of pressure Rooney's poor first touch and his inability to keep control under pressure will lead to regular turnovers of possession."

That is what happened yesterday, first half no Russian pressure, Rooney looked the part, second half Russia upped their game and he was not as effective.

Play him as a second striiker right behind Kane, and hopefully he will be more effective, but that is where Ali is best.

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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:48 pm

Germany Ukraine game is a corker.
Germany very fortunate to be ahead. Ukraine have spurned numerous chances and Neuer has made a couple of brilliant saves and they've cleared a certain goal off the line.
It's fun seeing the krauts getting torn apart over and over. Would be more fun if Ukraine scored.
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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:24 am

I feel Croatia are the best team I have seen so far, at least the best performance. Unlike the other teams who have won, Turkey are a better than average side, so good win for Croatia.

News over night that our fans behave or we all return home.

Might just save Roy's ass.
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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:15 pm

Italy looked better than expected, they are going to be tough to score on. There are also better in attack then we were led to believe. Belguim on the other, the most expensive team in the tournament, were a disappointment, lot of talented individuals but they don't seem to gel as a team.

Belguim should beat both Sweden and Ireland since both looked pretty average in the early game but they have do better to live up to expectations.

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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:48 pm

The way Italy were set up and the way each of the players bought into the system set out by the manager has the media n Chelsea fans taking notice and those Italian Chelsea fans saying ~ Told you so.

Obviously its just one game, but it had the so called experts in the studio on the channel I watched the game wax-lyrical on the performance.

The flip side of this is of course is Belgium are a country of individuals who do not gel as a team. There world ranking for me is false, so maybe we shouldnt get too excited by Italy's performance?
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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:50 pm

Italy played park the bus football, and cynical football. They scored an earlyish goal and defended a lead, then struck on a lopsided counter. A win is a win and if you do that six times you take home the pot, but lets call it what it was - ugly.

Belgium are the new Holland, the sum of the parts is greater than the whole when push comes to shove, more because of arrogance (for the English its because of incompetence).

Italy have, by their own standards, performed pretty poorly in qualifying, and grind out a win in a very big match.

I think you learned little about Conte, TT. Surely you knew already that he could play that game?

Hungary really put in a shift today. I'm getting mullered in the work pool, and them beating Austria, who I have going all the way to the semis, completely hooped me!
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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:05 pm

Austria v Hungary was the first big shock.  I had Austria doing well and Hungary being one of the worst teams in the tournament.  Austria missed two or three chances early, Alaba hitting the post within the first minute and Junuzovic missing a great chance 15 or 20 minutes later.  After that Hungary grew into the game and Austria started getting chippy.  Thought they were lucky to have only one red.

Portugal's first half was the best I have seen, they could be about three up.  I expected more from Iceland but maybe the nerves are a bit raw, not sure if this is their first tournament or not.

Iceland tying it up with their first opportunity since the first couple of minutes. Strange old game.

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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:16 pm

Milt wrote:
Italy played park the bus football, and cynical football. They scored an earlyish goal and defended a lead, then struck on a lopsided counter. A win is a win and if you do that six times you take home the pot, but lets call it what it was - ugly.

Belgium are the new Holland, the sum of the parts is greater than the whole when push comes to shove, more because of arrogance (for the English its because of incompetence).

Italy have, by their own standards, performed pretty poorly in qualifying, and grind out a win in a very big match.

I think you learned little about Conte,  TT.  Surely you knew already that he could play that game?

Hungary really put in a shift today. I'm getting mullered in the work pool, and them beating Austria, who I have going all the way to the semis, completely hooped me!

Well one would hope it was in him to be able to play like that, but listening to Italians this was reverting to old school Italian football, something up to now Conti had refused to do.

As I said before, its only one game and us Chelsea fans like what we see. Loved Viarli's line on Hazards performance, if he does not run for Conti he will be out and that goes for anyone else at the club.

The other fall out from that game is the Belgium manager is getting plenty of stick that he has so many top talents but cant get them to play as a team.

Just been watching Slovakia winning convincingly. I would have thought of we need to get a result from the final group match we are likely to struggle against this mob.

Anybody confident about tomorrows game?
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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:08 pm

Something about a side who keep scoring late when playing pretty average football. Looks like France have that about them. Surly they wont win the whole thing thou?

Will they?
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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:45 am

France is scoring late, but they create a lot of chances. They just can't finish. Payet must have put half a dozen crosses into the box that could have been and likely should have been headed into the back of the net. They can get away with it agaisnt average opponents and the tournament is set up for the hosts to coast into the quarters, however once they face a good opponent they will have trouble.

The same thing happened when they won the World Cup at home, as they progressed through the tournament their momentum grew and the enthusiasm of the crowds increased and it carried them to victory. Could very well happen again.

As for England tomorrow, yeah I think they beat Wales.

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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:50 pm

Unchanged lineup for England.

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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:02 pm

Goal keeper error.  England down a goal and in big trouble.  Need Sturridge and Rashford on and just go for it. Kane and Sterling should be off.

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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:34 pm

Lucky Lucky Roy.

I have to admire his substitutions, but it illuminates his poor selections for the 2nd game running.

Vardy is having the season of his life and should be referred to as the new "Golden Balls" since Beckham's retirement. He did nothing other get real lucky in the box...... Good luck to him.

Sturridge was making me laugh playing far deeper than he should knocking the ball about with his one foot, yet as ever he gets a goal. Its funny, he has not improved since leaving Chelsea, but he still has that knack of picking up a goal....... again, good luck to him. There is no chance of him carrying out the running back to play that position from the start. Will make selection in the next game interesting.

What can we say about Joe Hart? I'll leave it too you guys to list the number of times he has let clangers in.

Kane lalana Sterling Alli and Dier were all poor for me. Rooney again played well, but Peter Crouch's words keep coming to mind when I see Rooney play so deep.

Many gave Walker MOTM and marveled at his work rate bombing forward. Rio Ferninand jumped all over that saying he is a one way full back who lacks in his own final 3rd and needs to improve. Made me laugh as Rio's ball watching was legendary and that never improved.

Lastly, and to my embarrassment, I found out today that some of the teams that finish 3rd in the group stage will also qualify for the knockout stage!!!! Cost me a fucking Tenner!


As I write this, NI are 1 up..... Fingers crossed
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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:46 pm

Hodgson was a couple of minutes away from getting roasted in the press and England the same from being on the verge of going out. Can't have too much sympathy for Wales, showed no ambition and no tactics other than to defend and give the ball to Bale. England were lucky but Wales got what they deserved.

Yeah 4 of the 6 third place teams get through, you have to be awful not to advance to the knockout round.

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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:05 pm

Redcanuck wrote:
Saw the headlines. Rooney man of the match,  Hodgson blamed for taking him off, etc.

This post on Redcafe summed up the opinion on the United boards;

"The truth is that Rooney can only ever be effective in that role if given acres of space to operate in. Unfortunately most PL opposition managers will quickly see that when put under even a slight amount of pressure Rooney's poor first touch and his inability to keep control under pressure will lead to regular turnovers of possession."


That is what happened yesterday, first half no Russian pressure, Rooney looked the part, second half Russia upped their game and he was not as effective.

Play him as a second striiker right behind Kane, and hopefully he will be more effective, but that is where Ali is best.

This is the exact reason I stay off most United boards. Rooney is many things, but one with a shite first touch, he aint. Rooney's problem was that he was doing all the work himself back there. Dier was mopping up in front of the back four, and doing a very good job, but Alli was fucking about most of the game. His passing choices were suspect at best. His youth has come through. I think Jack Wilshere (as much as I don't like that he's in the side given his injury record) would play a much better role than Alli in the current set up.

People, in England especially, need to really quite with this conservative view of football. It's a damn shame, but it's holding the country back from ever winning anything.

Kane has been utter rubbish in both matches thus far. So has Sterling. Lallana looked much better today, but he's the Andy Cole of the team and can't put his chances away. Had he hit the target for half of his chances vs Russia, we'd have been up 2-0 at half. He's a very good looking player, but he bottles it when it matters most.

I'm most stunned at how bad Sterling is. I never saw the hype before, but I sure as shit can't see any reason for him to be playing top level football, especially under Pep at Man City. I'm hoping Woy gets the mix right in the next game and keeps it ticking. Rooney has been excellent, no one can argue this. Dier has done well along with Cahill and Smalling. I think Rio was pretty correct in his assessment of Walker, and in fact, the lads on the Canadian TV were saying similar things about how he's not getting into the opposition back line at the right times without the ball to free up the congestion for the attackers. It's all very true. Danny Rose also looks a bit off the pace, but perhaps he comes into it.

England will really struggle against the more organized teams in both attack and defense. I think they will do OK if there is an open game (aka if they play Spain or Germany) but a team like Italy will kill us off easily.
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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:46 pm

Englands best players are always the ones who aren't on the field. Before Vardy came on, he was being talked about as somewhere between Pele and Maradona.

I think they lacked a little bit of guile and a lot of luck that might had have them have the ball in the net long before Hart blows that free kick save, ditto against Russia.
Rooney did alright today, but again, not made to work hard, which was disappointing from Wales, who set themselves up for the lucky win or draw. I'm glad that shit got them nothing.

Maybe they are saving their luck for the knockout stages?

Northern Ireland get a terrific win, all credit to them.
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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:40 pm

Busby wrote:
Redcanuck wrote:
Saw the headlines. Rooney man of the match,  Hodgson blamed for taking him off, etc.

This post on Redcafe summed up the opinion on the United boards;

"The truth is that Rooney can only ever be effective in that role if given acres of space to operate in. Unfortunately most PL opposition managers will quickly see that when put under even a slight amount of pressure Rooney's poor first touch and his inability to keep control under pressure will lead to regular turnovers of possession."


That is what happened yesterday, first half no Russian pressure, Rooney looked the part, second half Russia upped their game and he was not as effective.

Play him as a second striiker right behind Kane, and hopefully he will be more effective, but that is where Ali is best.

This is the exact reason I stay off most United boards.  Rooney is many things, but one with a shite first touch, he aint. Rooney's problem was that he was doing all the work himself back there.

I have to agree its a bit of a slap in the face for the boy questioning his touch. I thought I had missed something which people who get to see him often picked up on. Actually suprized you didnt question that Red?
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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:16 pm

I don't think his first touch is bad, but neither do I think its ideal for a midfielder who is being positioned as the central creative force in a top tier international side.
getting the ball under control is important of course, but it is only the minimum requirement. A midfielder should be able to direct the ball with the first touch to give the maximum space, or ideally play the ball on with the first touch.

Both Delle Alli and Rooney yesterday took too many touches on the ball, and often it was because the first touch did nothing more than just get it under control. Compare then to Lallana, whose first touch is very often giving him a great position versus his opponent or laying the ball onto a running player.

The number of times I saw Rooney and Alli, having to spin away from goal to protect possession, which slowed up the play a great deal was crazy. At least Rooney from time to time gets in a decent pass, or changes the direction of play, though, Alli didn't add much at all imo.

TT you were having a little Blue Goggles poke at Sturridge. Watch him without your specs on. He comes out for the ball, yes. He takes it and turns at his opponent and looks to either beat him, or lay-off for the one/two. This means he is always moving into space when he wants to get the ball back from his team mate, and better still he has the defender needing to turn to match his pace. The goal he scores comes from doing this exact move. The other move he does which is very productive, is to go to the right wing with the FB, then lay the ball onto the overlapping FB while dropping off into the space at the corner of the box. He is looking for the cut back, and has scored a lot of goals with his left foot from the position.
He'll never be an off the shoulder of the CB striker, never. So you won't find him hanging around waiting for scraps, which is what Vardy did yesterday.
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PostSubject: Re: Euro 2016    Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:04 pm

Milt wrote:
I don't think his first touch is bad, but neither do I think its ideal for a midfielder who is being positioned as the central creative force in a top tier international side.
getting the ball under control is important of course, but it is only the minimum requirement. A midfielder should be able to direct the ball with the first touch to give the maximum space, or ideally play the ball on with the first touch.

Both Delle Alli and Rooney yesterday took too many touches on the ball, and often it was because the first touch did nothing more than just get it under control. Compare then to Lallana, whose first touch is very often giving him a great position versus his opponent or laying the ball onto a running player.

The number of times I saw Rooney and Alli, having to spin away from goal to protect possession, which slowed up the play a great deal was crazy. At least Rooney from time to time gets in a decent pass, or changes the direction of play, though, Alli didn't add much at all imo


I think Milt is right here. Good first touch around the box as a striker, but you expect something different for a midfielder especially in the area of distribution.

The other thing is England have not really played anyone that good tactically, especially through the midfield. Slovakia, I think are their toughest opponents so far, lets see how Rooney does in the next game or in any further games when they face stronger opposition.

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