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 England vs Kazakhstan

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PostSubject: England vs Kazakhstan   Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:49 pm

Here is a thread where we can discuss all things Borat, before and after the game.

First things first, my 11 to face Kazakhstan, taking into account the confirmed omission of JT:
James, Cole, Lescott, Rio (c), Brown, Walcott, Barry, Lampard, Gerrard, Crouch, Rooney.

The main points are: I would go with Lescott over Upson given that he has played more games over the recent times. Against this weaker opposition it really shouldnt matter.

I would go for Crouch over Heskey given his current form. I am a firm believer that form should get you your spot in the side, but that said, I full expect Heskey to start tomorrow.

And finally, the big debate. Normally, i would have Cole (J) on the left instead of Gerrard. But, like Huzup (i think) has said in the big debate we have had, Gerrards flexibility allows him to be played anywhere and we can take advantage of this, this week even if it slightly compromises Gerrard. Frankly, Downing is not good enough and for me, Gerrard is the only option on the left, whether it is his preferred position or not. From the left, hopefully he will not "hinder" Lampard in the centre and that in this way they can work together. I am 99% sure this is how the midfield will shape up and I think Joe Coles omission from the squad is Capello's get out of jail free card this time around,
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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:28 pm

Capello doesn't really have a lot of choices, especially across the middle. As for Crouch starting instead of Heskey. Rooney and Heskey showed in the game against Croatia that they can play together, I am not sure if Crouch and Rooney have been paired together and what the result was. But England needs to get their lineup set, they have been changing things around and trying different things for too long. I would leave Rooney and Heskey together the next two games and if it works as well as it did against Croatia then that's one of the questions answered.

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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:41 pm

Full team - James; Brown, A Cole, Ferdinand, Upson; Gerrard, Lampard, Barry; Walcott, Heskey, Rooney.
Subs: Carson, G Johnson, Bridge, Beckham, Wright-Phillips, Defoe, Crouch.

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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:01 pm

very poor up 2 now.....HT

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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:08 pm

Interesting first half. I think they're all working hard, but it's just not gelling together in the final third. Walcott seemed to start off well breaking down the right, but he doesn't seem to be on the ball as much. Gerrard and Lampard don't look as though they are in each others way, both have done some good passes and both have done some shocking passes. Same can be said about them all to be honest. Frank had a great take on the edge of the box pulling the ball back from behind him only to be unlucky with his shot. Gerrard had a couple of driving runs, the best being when he was breaking into into the box but Walcotts pass was too heavy.
They all look desperate to put in a good performance but that pressure seems to be hampering them. I thinking Capello could be right about their mentality at home games.
The fitness of our players should shine through in the second half so we should create more opportunities. They all do seem as though they don't know what the other is going to do. If they could just relax a bit and try and not put themselves under unecessary pressure. The team has the quality to score and win handsomely but they just need to let it flow and let their natural games come out.
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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:10 pm

0-0 ht, not good. , Walcott has looked dangerous down the right wing, Heskey should have scored early, but not many chances after that. Need to break them down in the second half, expect once the first one goes in, the game will open up a bit and we may see a couple of late goals.

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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:11 pm

So changing back to a 442 with Barry coming off and Gerrard and Lampard in the centre together. Wright-Phillips comes on to play on the left.
Good corner by Lampard onto the head of Ferdinand to score. I wasn't expecting that after the corners in the first half. I was also suprised the goal wasn't dissallowed as the goal keeper couldn't get the ball. I didn't think it was a foul but as in a previous topic, breathing on goal keepers normally raise a foul. 1 v 0.
Another great ball into the box by Lampard for the own goal. 2 v 0
Looked like we might be gaining in confidence then a stupid goal to conceed. Who to blame Cole for the cross? Ferdinand for watching the ball and directing traffic? Well taken goal though. 2 v 1

Good goal by Rooney, nice cross by Brown and good movement to make the space for the cross. 3 v 1
Walcott didn't seem to have the same impact as he did at the start of the first half so Capello brings on Beckham for him. He then plays a big part in the next goal.
Rooney again. Freekick by Beckham and Rooney being in the right place at the right time. 4 v 1
We seemed to have a bit more belief from being 3 v 1 up and we looked more relaxed.
Great touch by Heskey to play Defoe in on goal, loads of time on the ball and takes it well. 5 v 1

I thought Heskey played well again tonight and deserved a goal. He reminded me of his Liverpool says, great effort in the right place most of the time but the ball wouldn't hit the back of the net. It got a bit silly at the end when everyone was trying to get a goal, and Wright-Phillips looked like he was trying to sign for Arsenal with the amount of times he ran into walls trying to walk the ball into the back of the net.

The Gerrard and Lampard central partnerships looked better to me. Gerrards current role with Liverpool is to play more diciplined as a midfield duo and as Tick mentioned in the other thread he feels better playing in a role that gives him certain boundaries. I'd like to see them both play in the centre against better opposition and see how it works out. If Terry can be back for then it would give me greater confidence in our defence in such a team.

Their No 7 has looked a threat most of the evening, but was that down to him being a good player of bad defending by England as a team? I didn't feel the utmost confindence in our defence and we probably would have suffered against a better quality opposition.

Overall we weren't great and the score line certainly flatters. However if we can take the belief and confidence from these games we may be able to get a good run going. The press no doubt will build this up to be something it's not.

Well done lads, under all the pressure.
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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:17 pm

I hate/loath/detest England fans - an embarassment.
Truly the most pathetic and childish set of fans I have ever come across...does that family stand cover the whole of the stadium? A disgrace.
Good win, first half all wrong, Barry out the way let the midfield flow in the second half - some typically English goals which pleased me, only worry is we have no cover at centre back. We should apply to FIFA to let us play every game away, or every home game at a neutral venue.
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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:41 pm

Good second half. The change SWP for Barry opened up the game by allowing Rooney to move inside just off Heskey's shoulder. Both Heskey and Rooney looked good and I have to think that Capello has to stick with them on a 4-4-2. Not sure where the Lampard/Gerrard partnership looked better Simpleman, must have been the 20 minutes in the second half where I lost the stream.

Still think Capello has to make the tough choice, and put either Gerrard or Lampard on the bench and bring in Hargreaves who is supposed to be healthy.

5-1 is a good result but once the third went in Kazakhstan folded like a cheap suit and it could have been 7 or 8 goals for England. Belarus away will be a better judge of how far England has come and how far they are yet to go.

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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:16 pm

Result is all that matters.

Opposition tired and helped us overrun them.

I think tonights boos has confirmed thats its nothing to do with performance or person.

Its the colour of the club shirt they wear.

England fans have now reached the level of patheticness that only those who suffer from the worst form of jealousy can find in their hearts.

I hope it hurts!

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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:19 pm

I thought the second half performance was very very good. The first half was a failure because the system was all wrong, but once Rooney was moved to a more central role, the work Heskey was doing became more fruitful.

Gerrard and Lampard together did nothing to suggest to me it will work out but they didnt do themselves any harm, especially seeing as England came to life when Barry was taken off, leaving Gerrard and Lampard in tandem through the middle. Lets face it, that change happened and we scored 5. And the input of SWP certainly wasnt the changing factor. He plays the game like a Jack Russell would. Hopefully chasing the ball with his tongue out and just running into stuff.

Don't want to see Rooney on the left for England anymore. It works for Utd but Heskey isnt good enough to play as a lone striker and neither is Rooney. As a pair, as they showed in the 2nd half, they work.

A good few critics on here, especially about the first half, but we won 5-1 without playing that good. A wins a win, and this was a comfortable win whether it flatters you or not.
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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:51 am

Hmmm...Capello's plan to stick Rooney out left to accomodate 2 attacking midfielders didnt work, glad he changed it...and tick, the idiots were booing because of the mistake, not everything is about Chelsea Wink...and just in case you didnt hear me first time - I loath those England fans, more than any negative feeling I have towards fans of rival clubs - those idiots top the list by a country mile.
(reading through the comments of English Liverpool fans, they are disgusted by the boo boys, which makes me doubt ever more ticks paranoia when it comes to Chelsea players Wink )
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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:49 am

You have to wonder about the booing of A. Cole. You win 5-1 make one mistake and in reality could have scored 7 or 8. Even on the United web sites they condemn the booing, although they add that they think he is a wanker.

Not sure if it is the club shirt or not. With Lampard I think you can make an argument for that. A. Cole it's part of it, but there is also his history with the move from Arsenal and him being pissed off at being offered 50,000 a week instead of 55,000 and his escapades in the tabloids.

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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:12 am

Shocked http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/england/3180318/Steven-Gerrard-spoils-Englands-rhythm-Football.html Shocked

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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:00 am

I think the support for Lampard OVER Gerrard in our large debate recently kind of rules out that its got anything to do with the fact its Chelsea. Add to that that Joe Cole is everyones favourite English Chelsea player and it is just a case of Ticks paranoia.

Cole was booed because of his mistake, not because he plays for Chelsea even though that was a disgrance. England fans are just fickle. Bentley was booed as he played for England for decisions he made off the pitch and he does not play for Chelsea. Beckham was booed when he was sent off way back in 98 and he doesnt play for Chelsea.
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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:19 pm

Well, i was at the match and the first half was simply atroucious. No chances were being made and frankly kazakhstan had the better play

Second half, much different, good play, but still, 4 goals came from crosses. There was a small section of supports from kzkstan who at points were louder than the england fans except of course when the bastards started booing cashley cole.
Much more improvement to be made i think.

And an extra, i was sitting next to someone who looked exactly like bobby charlton
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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:36 pm

TickTok wrote:
Shocked http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/england/3180318/Steven-Gerrard-spoils-Englands-rhythm-Football.html Shocked

I saw that yesterday, but Barclay is a Chelsea fan, so what do you expect him to say?

We will see what Capello does at Belarus, for England looked so much better with Rooney just behind Heskey. I expect he will try Gerrard one more time on the left and tell him not to wander inside too much. But the real test will come if everyone is healthy during the next international break.

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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:36 pm

i like chocolate wrote:
Well, i was at the match and the first half was simply atroucious. No chances were being made and frankly kazakhstan had the better play

Second half, much different, good play, but still, 4 goals came from crosses. There was a small section of supports from kzkstan who at points were louder than the england fans except of course when the bastards started booing cashley cole.
Much more improvement to be made i think.

And an extra, i was sitting next to someone who looked exactly like bobby charlton

Did you ask him if he was Bobby Charlton?

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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:52 pm

TickTok wrote:
Shocked http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/england/3180318/Steven-Gerrard-spoils-Englands-rhythm-Football.html Shocked

as red said - an ardent Chelsea fan - taken with a pinch of salt.
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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:04 pm

Redcanuck wrote:
i like chocolate wrote:
Well, i was at the match and the first half was simply atroucious. No chances were being made and frankly kazakhstan had the better play

Second half, much different, good play, but still, 4 goals came from crosses. There was a small section of supports from kzkstan who at points were louder than the england fans except of course when the bastards started booing cashley cole.
Much more improvement to be made i think.

And an extra, i was sitting next to someone who looked exactly like bobby charlton

Did you ask him if he was Bobby Charlton?

No, i was tempted to, but i would look a bit silly if he wasn't.
Dont think he was because he left 5 mins early with a man in his 40s.
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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:54 pm

huzup wrote:
TickTok wrote:
Shocked http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/england/3180318/Steven-Gerrard-spoils-Englands-rhythm-Football.html Shocked

as red said - an ardent Chelsea fan - taken with a pinch of salt.

Since when was Barclay a Chelsea fan?

He is Scottish and I believe he is a Rangers fan.

I listened to Talk Sport this afternoon - Alvin Martin and Ray Houghton.

Fans were winding Houghton up with them saying FRANK (Yes bloody hell FRANK) should start before Gerrard as he never does it for England Shocked

Someone rang up and said he was counting the amount of times Gerrard gave the ball away and was up to 8 when he was called away from the game and has anyone else got the full total.

Well Houghton lost it - it was really really funny and Martin had to interject and pull the booing back to the conversation.

Gerrard: Englands New Right Back

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid958992159/bctid1851181533

Cole: Boo's and Winters still smarting his exclusive on Rio as Captain was WRONG!

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid958992159/bctid1851181528

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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:06 pm

He's a Dundee United supporter who follows Chelsea in the EPL, wrote a biography on Ranieri's time at the Bridge and he changeover to Mourinho.

Those fans - were they not the same ones booing him only 5 months ago saying Lampard should do Chelsea a favour and retire from international football?

This just confirms my dislike for England fans who go to Wem-ber-ley and have opinions that change with wind direction...(and those of the same kind who dont go to matches for that matter too).
Again, Gerrard was asked to forfeit his abilities so that the manager could try something new, he did a job, wasnt too great, but wasnt noticably bad either, the second half with Barry off Gerrard looked at ease, knowing he was going to be in play more and had more room to manouver in front of the back four. The biggest change was Rooney joining up with Heskey allowing Lampard room to move. It was only the first half where England didnt move the ball around well - no single player was at fault, but other than Heskey no one looked too much in the game either. Theo, Barry, Lampard, Gerrard and one or two others were all guilty of their fair share of mis-placed passes in the first half.
If neither Lampard, nor Gerrard had a shot on target in the first half - why is Gerrard the one to blame here or the one who had the bad game?
I stopped listening to the first video after the Sun reporter said Gerrard "almost had held his hands up" - dont you think it's the manager's port of call to tell Gerrard to sit back - anyone who doubts Gerrard's lack of discipline should rewatch the second half - the columnists remarks actually back my statement up - Gerrard was fantastically disciplined to say, I'll forfeit my ability for the benefit of the team - can you remember Gerrard supposedly getting in the way of Lampard?
This debate will never end - even once these two give up playing for England with "What ifs?"
2 final comments - one you touched on - reading some of the Sunday papers Rio was given a lot of praise for his leadership and how he is perfect to replace Terry when the time comes, secondly - if England make it to the world cup finals, and who should replace either Terry or Rio if either missed out due to injury(lets hope this is not the case)?
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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:29 am

Hmm.. on Barclay - He covers alot of London teams, but I am sure he does not favour Chelsea over any other.

The fans ringing up I am sure were Chelsea fans winding up Houghton. It was very funny and very much Liverpool ex player reaction. You only have to look at Phill Thompson to get some idea of how bitter and twisted they become when someone speaks out against their club.

I have no time for the England fans either - I dont have alot of time for International football anyway - as 2 Chelsea players are now unfit from this international break.

There is no doubt that Franks performance in Croatia has opened up so many blinkered media eyes to how well he performs when Gerrard is out of the way.

I am flabbagasted by the number of media who are now plumping for Frank over Gerrard in a 4 4 2.

You mention Gerrard being more disciplined in the 2nd half - well I have been told from a sorse that got it from someone who was in the dressing room at half time that the manager was at pains to tell Gerrard to hold his position once Barry was taken off. However, the manager was still not happy with him after the game as he was far too deep picking up the ball off the central defenders.

On the captain issue u raise if the two first choice captains are out - I would give it to Gerrard - if he made the team - if not Frank would be next in line for me.

On the media lapping up Rio as captain?

Well would u have expected anything else? to a man they ALL got it wrong on their exclusive new England captain story leading up to the best man to lead England KEEPING his job.

Maybe if John was playing he wouldnt have pointed to Ashley to pass the ball back to the keeper and made himself available to take the ball off him? Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:05 pm

I think you can reasonably assume that 999 times out of 1000, Cole would not have messed up his pass back. I dont think you can spin it to make it Rios fault. Nice try though. And Terry was injured before playing for England. Chelsea boys are just made of glass.

On the issue of the 3rd choice centre back, it should be Carragher. It always should have been. Carragher retired because he was mistreated under a different manager and left out when he thought he merited a place. If Capello believes Carragher is the 3rd best in the country he should make more effort to get him back. If Carragher quit solely because he was being ignored then he would have no reason not to come back. Unfortunately, that is probably not 100% the case and the Carragher ship has probably well and truely set sail.

From a few years back when we had a lot of CB talent, right now we look unbelievably thin.
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PostSubject: Re: England vs Kazakhstan   Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:20 pm

abcdef wrote:
I think you can reasonably assume that 999 times out of 1000, Cole would not have messed up his pass back. I dont think you can spin it to make it Rios fault. Nice try though. And Terry was injured before playing for England.

Hmm... Take the Blinkers off - More countries than just England play Internationals - Might have escaped your notice - Petr Cech was injured at the weekend too. Cole n Cech = 2

abcdef wrote:

Chelsea boys are just made of glass.

Why else would your team be champions?

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