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 Belarus v England

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huzup

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PostSubject: Belarus v England   Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:09 pm

Team News:
James, Brown, Bridge, Ferdinand, Upson, Lampard, Barry, Gerrard, Walcott, Rooney, Heskey.
7.30pm BST start.
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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:39 pm

What more could you ask for as an England fan?
Played 4, won 4. And that's without the strongest 11. After scoring the first England just let Belarus play - I swear after that goal we changed our formation to 4-0-2 - the midfield disappeared.
Wayne Rooney has come to life all of a sudden in an England shirt - that second was sublime, and Emile Heskey looks a different player. He must be such a pain in the arse to play against - fantastic from him, he was very good again. Seems to have picked up an injury - just in time for Liverpool this weekend,lol.
Formation was flexible again, there was little protection for the fulbacks - but England seem to improve as the game goes on.
Any criticism for misplaced passes, going into hiding, no discipline and piss easy misses are more than welcome.
No qualifier till April '09 now - Germany and Slovakia friendlies before that - England can relax, the press can give it a rest.
Back to the PL forum... Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:59 pm

Very good game, great second half. The only thing they did wrong in the first half was give Belarus too much space and time on the ball. Couldn't believe their goal the commentators sent 23 passes but seemed more like 40 to me.

Rooney and Heskey do look like a awesome partnership. Hope this continues through the season for Rooney. Gerrard had a very good game, his best for England in a long while, he didn't seem to get in Lampard's way, not sure if Lampard was playing a little more defensively though. Does lead to the question I ask on the another England thread, why can't we play Gerrard and Lampard together against average teams and leave the holding midfielder to when we play the top teams.

The way that England plays in the second half of games, Capello must have an incredible half time talk. I like the way he can change things up at half time and come up with options that seem to work. England in the past have been too predictable.

4 wins out of 4 can't beat that start, too bad it's going to be 6 months til the next qualifier, would like to have another two or three games now and get qualification over with. The way England has been up and down we could go off the boil by March.

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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:49 pm

Well done ITV Pundits - They just summed up perfectly what was wrong with our team and why better opposition will beat us if we continue to with these players in these positions.

I thought we won because the oposition were giving us far too much respect and if they had a better coach and attacked with their full backs we would have been exposed as both our players who played wide dont track back.

There is no balance in the team tonight and in the 2nd half our best player was made to give up everything in his game to accomadate a lost player who cant do as he is told.

Rooney - Outstanding son - Where you been for 2 years

Heskey - playing very well - Previous manager was so right to bring him back

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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:58 pm

Do you notice something with foreign managers? - especially those who bring the "continental" style here - they look to end the game strong - compared some of the English managers who look to start the game all guns blazing?
Lampard did a lot of dirty work in that second half in terms of intercepting passes and full credit to him, along side Barry those 2 did a sterling job - Gerrard seemed to have been given a "box to box" role in the second half also - tracking that one central mid when defending and bombing forward when in possession.
2 key partnerships for me that were cruicial today - Heskey and Rooney & Rooney and Gerrard.
Cant set up like this against better opposition though...Bridge did well but wasnt tested, Brown was ok - no protection for either fullback - and I reckon Capello had more to do with that than Walcott and Gerrard not doing defensive duties.
Capello knows his back 5 and top 2 - I reckon the other 4 will change depending on opposition - got it right today - and thats the important bit - Capello did his homework and could take the risk of no protection for fullbacks - he wouldnt do that against better opposition.
Gerrard isnt a left sided midfielder - Capello understood this and gave him the free role, in the second half using 2 defensive midfielders he could give Gerrard a full central role - maybe he thought "I know, why not try Gerrard in his more accustomed position and let someone else sacrifice?"
Good job Capello.
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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:02 pm

TickTok wrote:

There is no balance in the team tonight and in the 2nd half our best player was made to give up everything in his game to accomadate a lost player who cant do as he is told.
And look what happened - a great second half performance, didnt conceed any goals and scored 2 - one set up by the lost player who cant do what he is told...funny that.
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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:37 pm

huzup wrote:
TickTok wrote:

There is no balance in the team tonight and in the 2nd half our best player was made to give up everything in his game to accomadate a lost player who cant do as he is told.
And look what happened - a great second half performance, didnt conceed any goals and scored 2 - one set up by the lost player who cant do what he is told...funny that.

You have to be bloody joking

That just sums up all you know about football if u r crowing about him tonight

The ITV guys said it too a tee

He is undisciplind - he has no left foot - a real player would have knocked that goal in with his left foot - They was almost embarrased to speak about him on ITV cause all 3 of them could see how unbalanced he makes us look.

What did they say - he was sopposed to be playing wide left in the first half with moving inside on occation - Townsend laughed at that and said a bit too much me thinks - we will have a look at that later.

We will never be a great side with him in the team!

How fantastic it was not to hear those ex Liverpool prats on the BBC licking his arse - Well done ITV - Tell it as it is!!!!!!!!!!

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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:56 pm

Gerrard seems to be getting a lot of accolades for the performance tonight.

As for Gerrard's role tonight this is what Capello said;

In the first half, Gerrard was handed an essentially free role with licence to cut in from the left, although after half-time he was asked to do a marking job on Alexander Kulchy. “I asked Gerrard to play between the lines, between midfield and defenders,” Capello said. “But when we won back the ball we lost it a lot of times. We lost possession too much because they were pressing us so much in the first half. In the second half, I asked Gerrard to go man-to-man on their No 2.

I thought Gerrard came inside a lot in the game, but if he had a free role in the first half and was following his man in the second half maybe he was doing as he was told?

I watched it on a stream, at halftime they talked to McManama, Allardyce and Venables, so don't know if that was ITV or BBC.

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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:34 am

rather than question my knowledge, you should try and find out what "free role" means.
Remember - Capello's tactics - not Gerrards.
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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:10 am

huzup wrote:
rather than question my knowledge, you should try and find out what "free role" means.
Remember - Capello's tactics - not Gerrards.

Read your own posting "Gerrard was handed an essentially free role with licence to cut in from the left"

That does not mean come inside ALL THE BLOODY TIME and get in others way.

It means he has a free role ON THE LEFT - If he needs Licence to come inside ON OCCASION how is that a FREE ROLE?!

For god sake that is basic football knowledge.

I notice there are no quotes from the manager on Gerrards so called free role in the first half!

He made us so unbalanced in that first half that the manager changed it and I say again if the opposition manager had any balls about him and attacked with both full backs we would have been in trouble.

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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:59 am

It means starting position from the left - and free to roam when in possession - the free role means that you can cut inside.
How could he get in Lampard and Barry's way when he was given the attacking role?
Gerrard did little wrong in cutting inside when England had the ball, Lampard and Barry were playing deeper and Gerrard had more room to move across the park.
Capello said his tactics were to let Gerrard play between the lines - and that sloppy loss of possession was to blame for them getting back in to the game in the first half. That was his tactics - Gerrard did as instructed and Capello saw the short falls as England were getting sloppy and were unbalanced - then changing Gerrards role to man marking when defending and bombing forward when attacking.
Gerrard isnt a left sided midfielder, you and the ITV pundits missed that point, even when he can cut inside - when Gerrard came into the middle, England played better football. It's time somone else sacrificed their talents for England rather than Gerrard - you cant criticised him for not doing what he does when he plays for Liverpool when he isnt given a similar role.
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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:24 pm

huzup wrote:

Capello said his tactics were to let Gerrard play between the lines - .

That was the 2nd half - this so called free role was the first half -and I say again - The manager never said it was a free role - it was play wide left with LICENCE to cut inside on occasion.

Townsend picked up on that straight away - He never had the discipline to hold his position - Just like when he is sopposed to play the holding role.

Whenever he plays in the team it looks unbalanced - Croatia game has proved that - We was brilliant that night - last night we was lucky to get away with it.

By the way - the point you make about the ITV pundits and myself missing he isnt a wide left player is incorrect - We know he isnt a wide left player and should not have been on the pitch.

If Joe Cole had been fit - he wouldnt have been!

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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:26 pm

TickTok wrote:

If Joe Cole had been fit - he wouldnt have been!
Would you bet on that? Think Capello will leave Gerrard out? No one else ever has...
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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:43 pm

abcdef wrote:
TickTok wrote:

If Joe Cole had been fit - he wouldnt have been!
Would you bet on that? Think Capello will leave Gerrard out? No one else ever has...

So if everyone was fit from the Croatia game - you think this manager would have found a place to accommodate Gerrard?

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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:24 pm

TickTok wrote:
abcdef wrote:
TickTok wrote:

If Joe Cole had been fit - he wouldnt have been!
Would you bet on that? Think Capello will leave Gerrard out? No one else ever has...

So if everyone was fit from the Croatia game - you think this manager would have found a place to accommodate Gerrard?

That's the big question. We all have our opinions but I don't really know what Capello would have done. Hopefully when England play against the Ukraine I think in March, everyone will be healthy. Not only Joe Cole but Hargreaves as well. Maybe even Arteta if the Everton fans get there way, he would certainly add to the debate about left sided midfielders. Then and only then will we find out for sure.

Just an observation, but it looks to me that when they are both healthy Capello will play both Gerrard and Lampard. Unfortunately the only way that can be done is what they did in yesterday's game,with one given more of a free role and the other sacrificing his offensive talents to play a more defensive role and no room for Joe Cole. Gerrard doesn't have the discipline to play the holding role or even to stay out wide with out coming inside all the time, so it's Lampard that has to play the more defensive role.

Whether that is the right strategy is the big question. I don't think it is, but Capello seems to think it is.

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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:50 am

So if pundits/press say things negative about Gerrard then they are correct and we are to listen to what they say? When they say something positive then they're don't know what they are talking about? So this is the only time the pundits/press appear to be right...mmm interesting. Accepting peoples dislike of Gerrard is fine, people have their opinions but using pundits/press to validate your belief is bollocks especially the same pundits/press are discredited when they give conflicting views.

If Gerrard now gets to play in his role that he does for Liverpool, Frank is now going to play in a role he's not used to? So if Frank can show the discipline that Gerrard supposedly doesn't have then Frank is a better player, even if Gerrard was to score a shit load of goals from his new position?

What is it about Hargreaves? Wasn't he shit before he came to Man U? If I remember rightly no-one wanted him in the England team...or should I say the press didn't but then their opinion means jack. It's funny that when a player joins a top Premier team they are suddenly good enough for England but when they play for someone else they're overlooked. Is that also the problem with England teams is that the pool of players selected from is restricted to only being allowed to chose from an elitist group?
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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:21 pm

Hargreaves had a pretty sparkling CV i seem to remember before joining us. I dont know about people not wanting him in the England side prior to joining Utd but he was good enough to justify us paying a huge price...or perhaps not.

I think players that play outside of England dont get a fair look in for England but this circumstance is very rare. Only Owen, Woodgate, Beckham and Hargreaves have played outside England in the memorable past.
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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:19 pm

simpleman wrote:

If Gerrard now gets to play in his role that he does for Liverpool, Frank is now going to play in a role he's not used to? So if Frank can show the discipline that Gerrard supposedly doesn't have then Frank is a better player, even if Gerrard was to score a shit load of goals from his new position?

I wouldn't say better, maybe more well rounded. But it looks to me that that's how Capello sees their roles. If it works like it did against Belarus than maybe that will be the end of the debate.



simpleman wrote:

What is it about Hargreaves? Wasn't he shit before he came to Man U? If I remember rightly no-one wanted him in the England team...or should I say the press didn't but then their opinion means jack. It's funny that when a player joins a top Premier team they are suddenly good enough for England but when they play for someone else they're overlooked. Is that also the problem with England teams is that the pool of players selected from is restricted to only being allowed to chose from an elitist group?

I wasn't sold on Hargreaves til he played for England in the last World Cup, it's been claimed by many that he was England's best player. Didn't really see a lot of Bayern Munich games so it was hard to get true opinion on how good was. But he has performed well when healthy since the move and if Alex Ferguson thinks he is good enough for United than he must be good enough for England. lol

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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:33 pm

Redcanuck wrote:
...if Alex Ferguson thinks he is good enough for United than he must be good enough for England. lol
That goes without saying lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:34 pm

simpleman wrote:
So if pundits/press say things negative about Gerrard then they are correct and we are to listen to what they say? When they say something positive then they're don't know what they are talking about? So this is the only time the pundits/press appear to be right...mmm interesting. Accepting peoples dislike of Gerrard is fine, people have their opinions but using pundits/press to validate your belief is bollocks especially the same pundits/press are discredited when they give conflicting views.


Your almost right - well done - what u completely miss is what I said about the pundits on the BBC.

They who are ex Liverpool who talk bollocks for years since they have had the England contract and get the weak minded among you to believe Gerrard is a much better player than he really is.

The last 3 England managers have ALL prefered Lampard to Gerrard in that position.

Lampard puts up better stats across the board each season and unlike Gerrard is a Team Player.

Gerrard has stood out at Liverpool cause he has been surrounded by shit for years - Now Torres has turned up we dont hear so much about wonderboy.

simpleman wrote:

If Gerrard now gets to play in his role that he does for Liverpool, Frank is now going to play in a role he's not used to? So if Frank can show the discipline that Gerrard supposedly doesn't have then Frank is a better player, even if Gerrard was to score a shit load of goals from his new position?

Well thats a stupid statement - Frank showed more TEAM SKILLS in one half than Gerrard has done in years of trying to accumadate him cause he isnt the best England player in his chosen position.

I know thats lost on the weak minded.

simpleman wrote:

What is it about Hargreaves? Wasn't he shit before he came to Man U? If I remember rightly no-one wanted him in the England team...or should I say the press didn't but then their opinion means jack. It's funny that when a player joins a top Premier team they are suddenly good enough for England but when they play for someone else they're overlooked. Is that also the problem with England teams is that the pool of players selected from is restricted to only being allowed to chose from an elitist group?

I think the boys performances in the last world cup left without much doubt that those of us who questioned his ability were wrong to do so.

You sure it was SAF who gave the thumbs up to the signing of Hargreaves?? - I think u might find the man Carlos wanted him for Real Madrid and convinced SAF to put his glass down n ring Munich when he came back to United.

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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:05 pm

This whole Gerrard/Lampard thing is getting tiresome.
My opinion they are both top players. Would they be in my England team ? Yes (providing their club form was still good enough to warrant selection).
Where would you play them & get the best out of both, in the middle, with/without a Barry type player, with/without Joey C etc? My opinion, it shouldn’t matter, if these are two of the best players we have, they should be able to work it out for themselves as all the England players should - allowing for any managers instructions.
Its not rocket science, just communicate on the field, if one goes up then the other just hangs back slightly, if the both want to get forward someone else within the side has to cover. They both have eyes, ears and a mouth, and if they are the best we have it should be automatic, christ they have at least a weeks training together before a match to work it out!!
If the managers gives either them or anyone else, a specific job to do, they should carry it out, if they don’t (in the managers opinion) he should bollock them and either get them to do it better, alter it or give them the “hook”!

I don’t go along with saying ones better than the other cause he does this & not that and it therefore stops the other from doing this, or the stats show this one is better than that one cause of this etc. These are quality pro’s, the best of their proffession, they all should be able to fulfill any role asked of them on the pitch, even roles that perhaps they aren’t used to, and they should be expected to adapt to such, if they don’t ok everyone has an off day and can be forgiven, maybe the once at this level, just so long as they have a go and give 100%.
Put the effort in, have the right attitude, carry out any instructions to the best of your ability, talent should take care of the rest (eg Rooney & Heskey the other night). The mantra should be, it’s a team game, don’t care who scores, who crosses/passes from wherever, who defends in what area (obviously within reason!), any manager will say get the result 1st, performance 2nd. Don't we keep saying its a squad game now?

Englands last 4 games they’ve got the results, at times might not have been pretty, Ashely Cole made a ricket on saturday didn't have his best game in an England shirt -has played better in the past and will play better in the future & is currently our best in that position, but we still won, winning in any manor/fashion, breeds confidence and ultimately (hopefully) success. Long may that continue.
Cappello seems to be making small steps in getting things right, Gerrard may not be playing to well or to his full potential but he scored & had a hand in a couple of others, Lamps might not be gettin into those areas we normally see him & banging them goals in but he’s doing his job for the team well enough, perhaps a little more tweaking and they’ll both be hitting the onion bag more, lets wait and see.
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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:49 pm

TickTok wrote:

Your almost right - well done - what u completely miss is what I said about the pundits on the BBC.

They who are ex Liverpool who talk bollocks for years since they have had the England contract and get the weak minded among you to believe Gerrard is a much better player than he really is.
BBC, ITV, Setanta, Sky who gives a shit. They all speak bollocks so why do you bother listening? Did ITV show the whole game or the highlights? Did you see the whole game or do you need the ITV pundits to help you make your mind up about what happened during the game. I've forgotten how much we should bow down to your knowledge and have your opinions forced upon us.

TickTok wrote:

The last 3 England managers have ALL prefered Lampard to Gerrard in that position.

Lampard puts up better stats across the board each season and unlike Gerrard is a Team Player.
So it's obviously not that fact that Gerrard has played in multiple positions for his club and is looked at being more versitle player, therefore can be more easliy put out of position than Frank. How can the last three England managers be wrong, especially the callibre of the managers. How can we forget the outstanding wisdom and pedigree of McLaren, the overzealous attacking nature of Sven's team and we can't go without mentioning the astute tactical nature of "I'd love it if we beat them" Keegan.

TickTok wrote:

Gerrard has stood out at Liverpool cause he has been surrounded by shit for years - Now Torres has turned up we dont hear so much about wonderboy.
Really. Gerrard recently reached his 100 goal mark, however just over 70 of those have come from Benitez's reign. In each of those years the shit has disappeared and have being replaced with quality. In each of those seasons Gerrard has become stronger because the quality surrounding him has improved. Torres is not the only world class player at Liverpool, and Gerrard didn't disappear last year when Torres had his wonderful debut year. Utilising his strength Gerrard will shine. If he's so shit why was Mourinho after him?
TickTok wrote:

Well thats a stupid statement - Frank showed more TEAM SKILLS in one half than Gerrard has done in years of trying to accumadate him cause he isnt the best England player in his chosen position.

I know thats lost on the weak minded.
...and so is crediting Keegan for tactical astuteness.
dicanio wrote:
This whole Gerrard/Lampard thing is getting tiresome.
Absolutely agree.
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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:50 pm

TickTok wrote:

You sure it was SAF who gave the thumbs up to the signing of Hargreaves?? - I think u might find the man Carlos wanted him for Real Madrid and convinced SAF to put his glass down n ring Munich when he came back to United.

Not sure will try to check, but I was only joking with the comment I made about SAF.

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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:07 pm

simpleman wrote:
BBC, ITV, Setanta, Sky who gives a shit. They all speak bollocks so why do you bother listening? Did ITV show the whole game or the highlights? Did you see the whole game or do you need the ITV pundits to help you make your mind up about what happened during the game. I've forgotten how much we should bow down to your knowledge and have your opinions forced upon us.

Haha - whats the differance if they showed highlights or the full game? Do you not think they watched the whole game? lol

The ITV pundits got it right - Most of the England games in the past 4 years have been on the BBC - The Ex Liverpool twatheads have been singing from the same song sheet brainwashing the weak minded that Gerrard is the 2nd coming of Christ.

Total and Utter BullShit!

It was FANTASTIC to hear some others to give it as it is for a change and not get so far up his ass that they could have give his tonsils a clean.


simpleman wrote:

So it's obviously not that fact that Gerrard has played in multiple positions for his club and is looked at being more versitle player, therefore can be more easliy put out of position than Frank. How can the last three England managers be wrong, especially the callibre of the managers. How can we forget the outstanding wisdom and pedigree of McLaren, the overzealous attacking nature of Sven's team and we can't go without mentioning the astute tactical nature of "I'd love it if we beat them" Keegan.

Maybe its the Friday night alcohol taking effect - but the last 3 managers are - Sven Steve and CAPELLO!

simpleman wrote:

Really. Gerrard recently reached his 100 goal mark, however just over 70 of those have come from Benitez's reign. In each of those years the shit has disappeared and have being replaced with quality. In each of those seasons Gerrard has become stronger because the quality surrounding him has improved. Torres is not the only world class player at Liverpool, and Gerrard didn't disappear last year when Torres had his wonderful debut year. Utilising his strength Gerrard will shine. If he's so shit why was Mourinho after him?
[quote="TickTok"]

This really amused me - Please tell all who are the other World Class players at Liverpool.

On Jose signing - Well I can assure you very few at Chelsea wanted Gerrard - Lucky for us his word meant nothing to him.

simpleman wrote:
and so is crediting Keegan for tactical astuteness.


Yes - back to the 3 wise men I spoke of before - Luv-it Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Belarus v England   Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:37 am

TickTok wrote:

Haha - whats the differance if they showed highlights or the full game? Do you not think they watched the whole game? lol

The ITV pundits got it right - Most of the England games in the past 4 years have been on the BBC - The Ex Liverpool twatheads have been singing from the same song sheet brainwashing the weak minded that Gerrard is the 2nd coming of Christ.

Total and Utter BullShit!

It was FANTASTIC to hear some others to give it as it is for a change and not get so far up his ass that they could have give his tonsils a clean.
I was referring you whether you watched the full game or not. And if you didn't, you must realise that highlights don't give the full picture of the game, so in that case you're basing your opinion of the pundits whose opinion you can't validate because you didn't watch what they did.

Ticktok wrote:

Maybe its the Friday night alcohol taking effect - but the last 3 managers are - Sven Steve and CAPELLO!
Yet CAPELLO moved Gerrard into his favoured position and got Frank to have a more restricted role. Is that not has been said in this thread? scratch
TickTok wrote:

This really amused me - Please tell all who are the other World Class players at Liverpool.

On Jose signing - Well I can assure you very few at Chelsea wanted Gerrard - Lucky for us his word meant nothing to him.
Without doubt Reina and Mascherano are world class.
Not to mention most of the first team are international players for Holland, Brazil, Israel Very Happy , Spain, Ireland Very Happy and not to forget Slovakia.
Ticktok wrote:

Yes - back to the 3 wise men I spoke of before - Luv-it Wink
I didn't realise you had so much respect for Steve and Sven. How can I win such a debate when you bring out the big guns to support your arguement Shocked
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